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Random Play: So You Wanna Be A Rock’n’Roll Star

Posted at 11:33AM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Back when Bailterspace were our Great White Guitar Hope people here got very excited about the fact they played at CBGB’s in New York. I didn’t want to rain on anybody’s optimism but always pointed out that a lot of bands played at CBGB’s, sometimes as many as four a night.

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At that time I had been to that famous club a number of times, once when a Well Known Kiwi Band were playing there to an audience of about 35 people. I chatted with a girl from Christchurch.

Back home their New York "success" was trumpeted, but having been there I saw it . . . Well, let’s be charitable and just say, differently.

Memories of that and many other incidents involving Kiwi bands I have seen abroad came back when I read Neil Finn’s comments to Real Groove as reported in the Herald last week.

The adversarial nature of news reporting inevitably focussed on his comments about Helen Clark and the following day the call-response stoush was on. The Herald spoke to Ray Columbus and Sir Howard Morrison who weighed in to support the prime minister.

With all due respect to these two people -- Ray whom I don’t know but have liked very much every time we have met, and Sir Howard whose longevity I respect -- they hardly seemed the people I would have thought to be sought out for comment. (What, Frankie Stevens and Megan Alatini not available?)

Anyway, Finn’s snipe at Clark and the subsequent reports somewhat overshadowed the other and more important points he was making: essentially that it’s tough and indifferent out there in the international music marketplace, and that despite the money and enthusiasm pushing Kiwi bands into the world very few of them will make it.

He also seemed to be saying we shouldn’t be deluded about what these bands are actually achieving. Or even capable of achieving.

Of course comments like that -- general, but borne of long experience that we might want to take seriously and not dismiss as sour grapes as some have done -- don’t have a clear target as did his barbs about Clark. So it is harder to haul out a counterpunch debate of a few paragraphs. But they are points worth considering, especially in this month where we celebrate New Zealand Music.

Which brings me back to Bailterspace. Much as we might want our bands to succeed and we hail any small breakthrough, we might need to be realists and face the hard and uncomfortable truths: that a lot of these so-called international successes -- playing at CBGB’s or South By SouthWest -- actually mean more for home consumption than they do in the world.

The bands who play SXSW certainly get experience -- and my god do Kiwi bands need it.

One of the endemic problems we have in a small country is that bands play too infrequently. They don’t sort of get their stamina up.

I used to joke -- but it was true -- that most Flying Nun bands seemed to play two gigs in a week then need six months to lie down and recover. That is hardly going to prepare them for dates in the States or Europe. Or even just 10 days straight anywhere.

The other thing I always found strange was when bands from outside of Auckland came to the Big City some found it intimidatingly huge. I remember when Roger Sheppard of Flying Nun told me with his typically bemused grin that a particular band from the South were scared of the size of Auckland. I said if they thought that of Auckland he should tell them to forget about going to London or LA. Or even Birmingham.

Bands from here -- perhaps deluded by the success of MTV and MySpace acts -- seem to think that success can come on the back of a single or video clip. It can and has, but not often. Unfashionable though it may be, most bands and artists still make it by playing live to as many people as they can.

The tyranny of a small country is that it is easy to exhaust the local touring circuit -- although bugger all bands have tried in my opinion.

So you need to go overseas -- and not just to play a couple gigs then come back home for a cuppa tea and lie down. If you do that I figure you’re not that serious. You want success -- but still have mum do your laundry.

Bands or artists may need to base themselves offshore -- as an increasing number are realising. Greg Johnson is still slogging away in LA and every time I’ve seen him either up there or here it is always the same story: the breakthrough is just beyond reach but you have to keep trying. And you have to be there if it happens.

Jon Toogood of Shihad told me once that what they had learned by being the support act on a leg of a Major Band’s US tour was that playing a big gig in Denver actually means nothing of itself. They - Shihad that is -- might not get back to Denver for another 18 months by which time they were long forgotten, even by those who once howled approval.

Better then, in the States or Europe, to base yourself somewhere and work your local region -- which in the States might mean California where you can travel up and down the coast for years without outstaying your welcome, but also revisiting some areas where you make good and can build a local following.

It is a brutal life and I, who have not done it, only have admiration for people like Neil Finn and Don McGlashan who slogged it out and made sacrifices for years. And for my own three kids who work day jobs in London (as you do) and play in two separate bands. They are playing regularly, recording, one of the bands has done a tour of Poland (yep, you don’t think of it at this distance but they do have paying rock fans and concert halls in Poland) and I think their hard work will pay off. Seems to be anyway.

They are also in a very different social and emotional environment than we have here.

In the latest Real Groove where Neil Finn’s comments were published I have done an interview with Auckland singer-songwriter Miriam Clancy (who plays this Thursday at the Schooner Tavern incidentally).

In that I mention that she and her husband and young child are off back to the States so she can pursue her career there. They sold their house here a while ago so they could afford for her to record her debut album Lucky One which I think was one of the best albums of last year. Now they are looking to base themselves over in the States, maybe Nashville.

The point I made in the article is that unlike here the music community in Nashville will critique her work, here we provide a support network. But music isn’t a community project and never has been. Yes, we should support New Zealand music in terms of financial assistance and especially schemes like Outward Sound -- but at the end of it all it needs to be recognised that the new OpShop album isn’t competing for attention with the new album by the Tweeks from Dunedin, it is up against Arcade Fire, the Arctic Monkeys, Clinic etc etc.

My belief is that too often artists here -- and I am listening to two local albums at the moment which, while well intentioned, I wouldn’t give you tuppence for -- don’t have their work critiqued at every step of the process: in the writing, the recording, production, even the running order on an album.

Those who base themselves off shore are surrounded by so many more musical and cultural influences, so much more information, so many more points of reference or comparison.

Music is an international game and if artists only want success in this country then that is fine. I think they, if they deserve it on merit, should have it.

But for those who see something bigger and better out there -- a career even -- then the sights must be set beyond the horizon. But not through rose-tinted glasses.

Without wishing to speak for him or interpret his words, what I think Neil Finn was saying was that we need to be pragmatic and hard-nosed about this music business. It certainly is.

And ambitious musicians who aren’t tough/prepared/professional/hard-working and so on in all kinds of ways may find the world cruel and indifferent to them.

I think he was, in an off-the-cuff way, saying something that we need to hear more. The press releases about our bands at SXSW or playing a big Waitangi Day gig in London, or having a track added a TripleJ or flying to some Sydney-side MTV bash with a bunch of hangers-on need to be put into perspective.

It struck me that while a few people got huffy about Neil Finn’s remarks about Helen Clark our attention might have been better directed at what else he had to say.

But maybe that was a bit uncomfortable -- and in New Zealand Music Month we don’t want to hear it.

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Robyn Gallagher
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1006

Posted at 11:33AM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Everyone in a band should read this blog and think about.

I got an email from a friend once, urging me to see some band playing at the Kings Arms. "They're a really great local band," the email claimed, "so go and support local music!!!"

I didn't go because I realised that if they were from any other country, touring here, I wouldn't see them because I just didn't really enjoy their type of music.

By urging audiences to support local music, it sort of suggests that these bands aren't good enough to command audiences on their own, and I don't think that's helpful.

Richard Llewellyn
From: Mt Albert
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 322

Posted at 11:48AM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Completely different industry I know, but your points sound very familiar to some of the advice being provided to globally ambitious NZ companies during this years Export Year initiative.

The gist of it is; while its OK to aspire to the bach and the BMW here in NZ, if you truly want to build a global business, you have to get out on the road and slog your guts out finding and talking to your global market. Its simply not enough to have a killer business idea, you have to invest time and money building a market for it, and that means putting in the hard yards.

Simon Grigg
From: Bali, Indonesia
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1390

Posted at 12:09PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Graham...

My belief is that too often artists here -- and I am listening to two local albums at the moment which, while well intentioned, I wouldn’t give you tuppence for -- don’t have their work critiqued at every step of the process: in the writing, the recording, production, even the running order on an album.

bang on....and the mastering...generally..oh dear....hate to kick a man when they are down, but the mastering on the Dawn Raid material was appalling....flat, lifeless...it's a New Zealand issue and it's so important

merc
From: Styxville
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 1278

Posted at 12:11PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

I'd love to hear a sound engineers take on that.

Simon Grigg
From: Bali, Indonesia
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1390

Posted at 12:17PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

I'd love to hear a sound engineers take on that.

you don't need to....grab a Kiwi Hit Disc...listen....then put on, say the new Arctic Monkeys, or even that wonderful recent live Neil Young album (mouldy old tapes revived via wizardry) and listen to the sonic gulf.

merc
From: Styxville
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 1278

Posted at 12:20PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Yeah I agree fully, I am genuinely interested in why the poor mastering (I'm aware of it) and wondering if it's a cheap studio call?

Rob Stowell
From: Christchurch
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 370

Posted at 12:20PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

You've nailed something, Graham.
Bands can slog- tour hard- simply for "PR" and the love of making music only for so long. They also need to be hard-headed about whether the touring/playing gigs is paying the bills. 'Cos recording may just make their fortunes, but it's a long long shot.
If you can have fun and make money playing live, you've got a shot at a long-term career.

merc
From: Styxville
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 1278

Posted at 12:22PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Could you sing "Feels Like Heaven" 10'000 times, I couldn't for all the money in China.

Robyn Gallagher
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1006

Posted at 12:23PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

My belief is that too often artists here [...] don’t have their work critiqued at every step of the process: in the writing, the recording, production, even the running order on an album.

What I've noticed from my years hanging out at NZmusic.com, is that if a band is offered serious criticism, it is often dismissed as "tall poppy syndrome" or as being the words of a "jealous hater".

merc
From: Styxville
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 1278

Posted at 12:27PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Until you've got a hit, it's a bastard child, then if it's successful, it has more parents than it can ever live with.
Everybody wrote the riff for See Me Go, you know, hell I did, Peter just got there first <sardonic grin>.

Simon Grigg
From: Bali, Indonesia
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1390

Posted at 12:35PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

the old man (me) says....bands used to tour relentlessly and New Zealand had a viable touring circuit which did make money for the acts throughout the eighties and into the nineties...most of the records from that era we love were financed by live shows and it was feasible, if you were smart, to arrive back home with a few grand tucked away after a five week tour (where you played every little town on the map in every province...its called building a fan base). We used to do two week tours of the Church Halls of Auckland or two weeks of school lunchtimes, ot two week of small towns in Taranaki.

If you don't want to do that, don't complain about a) sales, or b) having to get a day job.

The kids these days......

Simon Grigg
From: Bali, Indonesia
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1390

Posted at 12:46PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Everybody wrote the riff for See Me Go, you know, hell I did, Peter just got there first <sardonic grin>.

There is a lawyer in Chicago who does all the music festivals and hands out T shirts to bands with "Sue The Bastards" on the front, and his phone number on the back....I think you need his services.

See Me Go..wasn't that Daydream Believer? Or was that Sunday Boys....no....that was I Will Follow....

merc
From: Styxville
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 1278

Posted at 12:55PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

I loved Pointy Ears. No, it was Blue Monday!

Scott Common
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 59

Posted at 1:48PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Brilliant write up Graham - I agree with a lot of what you have said. In particular the bit about the NZ community (if it can be called that) providing more support than actual feedback. I got to the point where I don't ask friends how our show was - I tend to have a good idea of how it was myself and unfortunatly, my friends being nice people, will tend to provide nice feedback (which is well.... nice, but not really that useful).

In regards to the mastering though I am in two minds - I agree that there is a substandard level of mastering services available in NZ (both in regards to technology and skills) but I also find the mastering on so many international records these days to be compressed to lifelessness. Many of you will know this trend as the "loudness war" which has been going on since pop music first gained its name. I feel like I could write an essay on it - but better people than myself have done so already so I won't continue pontificating about it here!

I was so digusted with the huge levels of compression on "At War With The Mystics" by the Flaming Lips (who I really like) that I traded the album back to the store for a new copy of Sufer Rosa by the Pixies (which would be the 8th or 9th copy of the album I've owned now!).

NZ artists do deserve our support - but not because they are New Zealanders - but if they make music that we enjoy.

stephen walker
From: tokyo
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 194

Posted at 4:36PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

We used to do two week tours of the Church Halls of Auckland or two weeks of school lunchtimes

lol! i saw the meemees in the school hall at lunchtime in 81 or 82. The gig was only announced that morning and i had to run around begging to borrow the small change needed to get in. we were pretty pissed off they didn't play in the theatre because the acoustics were appalling in the hall. Those catholic boys were so much cooler than us, we were so jealous!

lotech
From: AKNZ
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 6

Posted at 4:41PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Bam! I think you got it pretty much spot on Graham.

Why did hip-hop fail in NZ? Was it the assumption of a year of hustling the artists future success was earned? After a huge first album where is Scribe? I remember the Exponents touring every 4-6 months when I was a kid but find it hard to catch a similar band once a year now?

PS - the movie industry suffers the same problem - other than PJ who actually is getting anything from this 'Movie Industry'? Theres jobs for people but damned if any of our other directors are taking the world by storm.

3410
From: Auckland
Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 547

Posted at 5:12PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

My belief is that too often artists here -- and I am listening to two local albums at the moment which, while well intentioned, I wouldn’t give you tuppence for -- don’t have their work critiqued at every step of the process: in the writing, the recording, production, even the running order on an album.

...and the mastering...

One wonders why so often bands with zero fanbase are making albums at all. Shouldn't they be learning their chops on singles, and then taking on the much greater challenge of an LP if and when they've made the grade in the short form? That applies even more so in the iPod era.

PS. Graham,
Thanks for your Herbie review. I got funny looks from my 'hip' friends when I said 'Maiden Voyage' was the highlight. I feel vindicated.

Simon Grigg
From: Bali, Indonesia
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1390

Posted at 5:37PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Stephen...what school was it? Sometimes we used to just turn up in the morning and offer to play that day. We used to take $100 for PA & Petrol and give anything over that to the Student council as I recall...but it was about the fanbase. And that's still the key...radio is a poor second...most NZ acts have forgotten that. Arcade Fire broke in the US recently because they play and play, and pamper their fans

Scribe...new album has a name now...Rhymemaker or something like that, but no release date I think. But whatever fanbase he had has gone, and his BDO comeback was the final nail..he should have had another album out ten months after The Crusader, and single after single. It's pop and pop is bang bang bang singles.

But he's on Warners and I think Edgar Bronfman is about to announce huge worldwide layoffs and roster cuts so who knows what will happen

Scribe hasn't had a working web site for two years

Simon Grigg
From: Bali, Indonesia
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1390

Posted at 5:46PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Incidentally Fat Freddies dropped out of the Top 40 albums today after two years plus. The last few months have been down the bottom where it really only means someone has merely thought about buying you to get a place, but quite an achievement.

Finn Higgins
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2007
Posts: 209

Posted at 5:46PM on 9 May 07. Permalink.

Yeah I agree fully, I am genuinely interested in why the poor mastering (I'm aware of it) and wondering if it's a cheap studio call?

It's one of the general NZ problems - the infrastructure of a music industry on the actual production side doesn't really exist to an acceptable standard. Musicianship here sucks. Sound engineers suck. Etc. And the reason for this is that, like in any industry, people learn from being able to do the work. Since so little of the work in NZ is actually properly paid (instead going to some mate with a PC for engineering, or somebody's friend from school for musicianship) there's few seasoned professionals living here.

In other countries it's possible to make a decent living off being part of the music production process - either as a musician (one of my teachers in London had two kids and a wife, and successfully quit his job as a bank manager to play music full time) or as an engineer. But in NZ the expectation, for whatever reason, is that music services should generally come at the lowest cost possible. And preferably free.

While there are a few people doing decent mastering, and playing their instruments to an internationally acceptable level... they're the minority. The creme-de-la-creme in NZ is approximately equivilent to the average no-name working pro somewhere like London or LA.

Some of the problem is about the size of the market, but a big chunk of it is also about the lack of a proper union and an abundance of people who think that music should be, y'know, a labour of love and it doesn't really matter if it's a bit crap as long as it's local.

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