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Speaker: Mixing it up, with stats like

Posted at 8:43AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

When it comes right down to brass tacks, there's nothing more annoying than a plethora of speculation and bull-pucky getting in the way of a sports fan and a sport. This is why the love-lives of sports stars are never writ large in the study of games. What's important is:

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Is your favourite athlete going to be able to come up with the goods?
Who is trying to get in the way of your team winning the shield, cup, statue, silverware, girls next to the podium, big sports car, giant novelty cheque, or the undying adoration and admiration of you and other fans?
Where is this game being played?
When will all the crap masquerading as entertainment end, and the game begin?
What can you shout at the TV at times of great stress to make your team win?
Why was I never a contender?
I need to pee, will I be able to hold on till half time?

These are the kinds of things that define sport. It's not "Who is doofing who?" or "Who is smoking P?" or "Who has the snazziest dress sense?" Granted, they are always considerations. But the Dropkicks think that there are more important issues, and it is to one of these that we now turn our collective consciousness. Demographics.

So did you know that the heaviest player at the World Cup is Namibian Marius Visser? He's a svelte 140kg, or, the total weight of any two of the three Georgian players, Irakli Abuserdize, Bidzina Samkharadze and Giorgi Shkinin, each a colossal 70kg. This suggests that if the big fulla was to be KO'ed and accidentally collapsed on any single one of them, it could take the combined strength of both the other two to rescue their comrade. That's something to watch out for on 26 September.

More important though is something that popped up in conversation over on PA System. Chris Stockton, of Wales (long time reader, first time commenter?) asked the question,

Watching the Italian game (yes! they have just scored!), I was wondering how many of your lot are from New Zealand? , and yes I have heard of Maoris"

Unfortunately, he copped a bit of flak for asking. Not biffo-type flak, but flak none the less.

And the Dropkicks thought, "Chris, we're here for ya man. We see you only commented once, so we're here to bring you back into the fold".

The All Blacks are 73% NZ-born. Of the eight born outside New Zealand, five were born in Samoa (Jerry Collins, Chris Masoe, Mils Muliaina, Rodney So'oialo and Isaia Toeava), two in Fiji (Josevata Rokocoko and Sitiveni Sivivatu) and one in Tonga (Sione Lauaki). It's important to note that all of these players are naturalised New Zealanders. Most came to New Zealand with their families when they were very young and have been through the public school system. It's probable they didn't really like the schoolroom, for, as we all know, they choose the professional sporting life. But, there are bound to be Pacific Islander imports who followed the same path as Jerry or Mils or Sione and who did end up as accountants, or policemen, or or doctors, or engineers. The closest we have to a "poached" player would be Sivivatu, who came to New Zealand in his later teens.

It is also interesting to note that of the 30 in the Samoan squad, 12 were born in New Zealand. We receiveth, and we giveth away.

So compare that to the Home Nations, who for all their bleating about player poaching (nothing personal), are as follows:

Scotland: 67% homogeneous. The foreign-born players are Dan Parks (Australia), Nathan Hines (Australia), John Barclay (Hong Kong) and seven English: Craig Smith, Gavin Kerr, Andrew Henderson, Rob Dewey, Simon Webster, Hugo Southwell, and Jim Hamilton.
Wales: 77% homogeneous. Their foreign-born players are Tom Shanklin (England), Will James (England), Colin Charvis (England), Chris Horsman (England), Sonny Parker (New Zealand), Ian Evans (South Africa) and Dafydd James (Zambia).
Ireland: 83% homogeneous. Their foreign-born players are Frankie Sheahan (Canada), Malcolm O'Kelly (England), Simon Easterby (England), Isaac Boss (New Zealand) and Ronan O'Gara (USA).
England: 87% homogeneous. The foreign-born players are Mike Catt (South Africa), Matt Stevens (South Africa), Perry Freshwater (New Zealand) and Simon Shaw (Kenya).

At the other end of the spectrum, both Romania and Georgia have benefited the least from foreign influence: they have exactly zero foreign-born players in their squad (a number of them play for and benefit French club sides though).

And of the big nations, South Africa is the most homogeneous: 93% (or 28 out of 30) of their players are South Africa born. Of the other two, one was born in Namibia (Percy Montgomery), and one was born in Zimbabwe (Bobby Skinstad).

So, I think what we can take from all this is that the All Blacks do benefit from Pacific Island immigration. But their are no New Zealand sporting scouts in the Islands spotting youngsters running around with a rugby ball and saying: "Oooh, gotta grab that one - he's the next All Black's second five eighth".

It's all to do with economics, gravitating to the centres with greater opportunities for jobs and education. It's a consequence of the modern world. And what is New Zealand to do with these people? They come here young, live most of their life here, speak with the Kiwi twang, get jobs here and see themselves as Kiwis. Sure, they don't forget their roots, and nor should they, but they benefit from New Zealand, and in return New Zealand benefits from them.

And it's not just the All Blacks, New Zealand as a whole benefits, to be honest. Here endeth, the lesson.

The Dropkicks

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Don Christie
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 894

Posted at 8:43AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

And it's not just the All Blacks, New Zealand as a whole benefits, to be honest.

My nomination for quote of the year.

Bob Munro
From: Christchurch
Since: Aug 2007
Posts: 307

Posted at 9:25AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

Lovely. I'd always felt frustrated at the Stephen Jones type jibes, not having any hard data to counter with. And here it all is. Great!

Robyn Gallagher
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 924

Posted at 9:42AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

I don't even like or understand rugby, and yet I enjoyed reading that article. The cultural side of things appeals to me, and I do like a good set of statistics.

Oh, no. Does this mean I'm going to start being interested in rugby?

Bob Munro
From: Christchurch
Since: Aug 2007
Posts: 307

Posted at 9:54AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

Robyn, There are British scribes and rugby discussion forums that constantly chide New Zealand for poaching Pacific Island players and therefore 'cheat' to be successful. It's not really about rugby - it's the old colonial concept I think where we are meant to be a white enclave of Englishness plus a few Maori and they aren’t really aware of the changing demographic of the country. If the discussion gets going you might find it interesting, and with a bit of luck there wont be too much talk about the actual game.

Tim Michie
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 89

Posted at 10:46AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

Liked the Absolutely Appropriately Labelled Pie Chart on your site Dropkicks.

Che Tibby
From: The posh end of Cuba St
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 1300

Posted at 11:11AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

we of the Dropkicks are there for the people.

robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare to be assimilated.

Joanna
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 369

Posted at 11:26AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

I'm with Robyn on the finding it interesting despite my lack of any interest in sport, especially rugby. But no, this doesn't mean I'm going to start watching it or care if we win or lose, beyond my thoughts on women's refuges...

stephen clover
From: wgtn
Since: Sep 2007
Posts: 120

Posted at 11:27AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

I welcome correction, but I've heard that the big rugby private schools send scouts to the Islands looking for talent. Isn't that what happened with Sivivatu?

Or do they just scout around the public schools?

> robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare
> to be assimilated.

best. pickup. line. ever ;>

InternationalObserver
Since: Jun 2007
Posts: 908

Posted at 11:28AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

HEY, RB!!
Any chance you can put some sort of icon on the RWC threads so those of us not interested can save a few finger clicks (thereby delaying RSI another day)??

Righto, as you were ... blog away you rugby heads! : )

Michael Fitzgerald
Since: May 2007
Posts: 631

Posted at 11:50AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

"robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare to be assimilated."

Che is the Borg.

Rugby mimics War in that those who serve "our" interests are "us". WWII the promise of Treaty recognition brought forward many Maori to serve "God, Queen, & Country, Awe! Ake ake ...".
These promises were given little heed by the settler Govt. on their return.

So too PIs are recognised (rightly so) as Kiwis in the Black Jersey. Read any News Paper and you'll find the divide is strong and any NZer of PI descent is PI, one of "them". PI Rugby Player like Maori soliders only have an honoury white status in NZ.

merc
From: Changeville
Since: Dec 2006
Posts: 1276

Posted at 11:56AM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

The Burbs are The Borg (we will pave you); Che's kryptonite.

Robyn Gallagher
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 924

Posted at 12:07PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

> robyn, please lower your shields, and prepare
> to be assimilated.
best. pickup. line. ever ;>

Oh no! I feel all funny now!

Joanna, help me! The boys are seducing me with their rugby talk!

Joanna
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 369

Posted at 12:16PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

Joanna, help me! The boys are seducing me with their rugby talk!

It's okay Robyn, head on back to Hubris and I'll talk about boobs some more...

Emma Hart
From: Christchurch
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 862

Posted at 12:24PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

and I'll talk about boobs some more...

Yeah, boys hate that.

stephen clover
From: wgtn
Since: Sep 2007
Posts: 120

Posted at 12:31PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

I was more referring to the tactics, struggle for territory, hand-to-hand combat, artillery bombardments.......

> Rugby mimics War in that ... PI Rugby Player
> like Maori soldiers only have an honoury white
> status in NZ.

but yeah, that too :((

Rob Hosking
From: South Roseneath
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 402

Posted at 12:34PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

A fucking great post. Nothing like a few hard facts to deal with grizzlers.

One other apsect of course is the nubmer of ex All Blacks who are now coaching overseas. There's at least two at this World Cup, quite possibly more, not to mention all those ex ABs coaching non-national teams around the world.

Michael Fitzgerald
Since: May 2007
Posts: 631

Posted at 12:58PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

Stephen
BTW love your Heroic Cock (chk out his site).
I think there is quite a masculine trad of sculpture in NZ.

Richard Llewellyn
From: Mt Albert
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 312

Posted at 12:58PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

One other apsect of course is the nubmer of ex All Blacks who are now coaching overseas

All good illustrations of market forces in rugby and the fact that NZ does a great line in the global rugby export (and knowledge) economy.

But does anyone else think its a bit rich of Ted and Co to give McAlister a hard time for going to ply his trade overseas on a bigger wage after their own coaching experiences?

simon g
From: Auckland
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 290

Posted at 1:13PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

I know the R word should be used advisedly, but that's really what we're talking about here. Not deranged, foam-flecked racism (no Godwin, please), but the cheerfully (wilfully?) ignorant knd, that can't conceive of the Other except in the simplest of stereotypes.

Samoans, Tongans, Fijians etc do not exist in British eyes, except as rugby players. Nothing unusual there. It's not too dissimilar to New Zealanders thinking West Indies = one country = cricket, both false. If an immigrant community is not visible in your own society, you ignore it in other people's. And of course this is reinforced by the marketing/nationalism of sport, especially ye olde conservative rugby, where Scots wear kilts not turbans and the Welsh are only black from being down the mine, look you, and so on.

But it's important not to get sucked into the "born" argument. That can leave you holding a position somewhere to the right of the BNP or Le Pen. There is a significant difference between:

1)Monty Panesar - born in England
2)Nasser Hussein - born overseas, moved to England as a child, with family, for reasons that had nothing to do with cricket
3) Kevin Pietersen - born overseas but moved to England to play for England

The nationality (traitor / poaching / bad accent) debate should only ever be about number 3). Anything else is an anti-immigrant platform, way beyond sport. As pointed out in the original post, the overseas-born ABs are overwhelmingly in category 2). And as much as anything, it's abhorrent to equate nationality only with where you pop out, something that can be the result of your parents being in the armed forces or global business or hippie travellers or even (shock) an international liaison before Mum brought the toddler home ... really, it's all so bloody reactionary.

It's desperately sad that a huge NH media pack can follow the Lions here for many weeks in 2005, and yet apparently not once take the trouble to wander over to a school playing field in Auckland or other centres, and see what New Zealanders look like - and then report this to the folks back home. The public are ignorant, but only because the media (choose to?) perpetuate the "Polynesian poaching" myth.

PS It looks like we need a new lock over in France. I reckon we should send Flavell, Filipo and Rawlinson, and ask the NH rugby folk to choose the proper Kiwi for us. What's the betting they pick the import?

Hadyn Green
From: Wellington
Since: Nov 2006
Posts: 727
Moderator

Posted at 1:37PM on 12 Sep 07. Permalink.

It looks like we need a new lock over in France. I reckon we should send Flavell, Filipo and Rawlinson, and ask the NH rugby folk to choose the proper Kiwi for us. What's the betting they pick the import?

If I was a NH rugby person, that's exactly what I would do because the other two are better rugby players and I wouldn't want the All Blacks to do well.